There was some crazy job market analysis a couple yars ago that reported that your wage earning potential for a liberal arts major was actually higher if you stopped at a bachelor's degree, lower if you continued past to masters or doctorate. Saw this just after I got my master's in fine arts. I think wage expectations continued to increase for people going on to get advanced degrees in science (BS-->MS-->PhD) however.
Yes, it's still competitive everywhere though. There are a lot of out-of-work high tech people, that's for sure, as jobs go offshores. Not a lot of unemployed nurses at the moment, however. If this were the film *The Graduate* (before SP's time, hell, before mine) and it was all about making a good living, I would say "Health care, my son. The money's in health care."
SP, so much of what you're talking about and the things you worry about happened to me too so I'm definitely feeling for ya. My family (musicians, almost all of them) and all the adults around me who were in the music field kept saying "do something else" or "have something to fall back on" because the life was hard. It was tempting to take this message as a backhanded critique of my abilities as well...as in, "are these people just telling me I suck?" On the other hand, some pros advise not to have anything to fall back on, because most likely you will fall back on it and it will become your career. WTF?!?
I don't think anyone really knows. There are too many factors that have little to do with music. The people who care about you (especially if they've had bad experiences trying to "make it" as well) just don't want to steer you wrong and see you without the resources you need to survive or be happy.
I think you've just got to trust yourself, and trust in whatever powers you believe in to help you get wherever you need to go in life. It will happen. There is no way of predicting what will happen. Working hard helps, as does professionalism, natural talent and good vibes. But as a chinese fortune cookie once told me "Luck, not wisdom, is the true master of a man's affairs." (I was like, F***! All that time I've spent trying to be smart and make good choices! LOL) If luck is really what it comes down to, might as well go after what you really want.
I was talking about the feasibilty of going to school when one has a fulltime job and a family to take care of. Sure, it can be done...but it's easier when you don't have those obligations. I thought that was clear- sorry...
I think it's safe to say that having a college degree is much better than NOT having one.
<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ December 01, 2005 02:34 PM: Message edited by: cjbdrm ]</font>
Spaceotter brought up some good points. Its better to be lucky than good. I also like the point about some pros saying that the thing you fall back on will become your career, that's pretty accurate. To this day I still get sick when I hear the phrase "something to fall back on".
Look you're only here once and as long as you have 1/2 a brain and can at least act like an adult that's all you really need to get a job. Trust me I now a lot of people that should be in jail or dead and are more successful than me.
Also Tom Brechtlin was in MD a few months ago and had said that when he wastaking lessons he told his teacher that he wanted to get a degree in music ed to fall back on. Well the teacher said "here are two circles one teaching and one playing" you can do one but not both.
I think its what im gonna do, i've always said i was and i always knew its what i wanted...its just that on the harder times in life...just went through a break up with my g.f of 4 years a bit self doubt kicks in but i eventually get over it!
I am young, and i should give it my all now before its too late...if it doesnt work at least i wont have any regrets, but i plan to fight very strongly so that it will!
Btw, if i did a degree in performance it wouldnt be for the physical degrees sake, or for the practicality, it would be very the learning and the being immersed in music for 3 years or whatever it takes. Its for the learning.
Anyways, i'll let you guys know what school i end up attending.
Also, i would still be very interested in knowing how all the other pros started off and how they come to be pro
you know who you are! Please share, i would love to hear your stories...
S.P.,I understand your plight....
Firstly,I'm going to go for the jugular and say if you've just come out of a relationship,step back and realize YOUR dream. What is the most important thing to you. As hard as it is to deal with relationship issues,you have to embrace what may be in the future for you.
Going to school is a very noble and sensible thing to do. At the same time,moving to L.A. and studying with the very cats that inspire you is more possible than you think. I've always been a believer in trying to study with those who inspire you. Although they possess unbelievable skills,they are just like the rest of us. If you have nothing tying you down,the world can be your oyster.....at least for awhile....
I've been doing this my entire life.....
It just depends on what you are willing to go through....
Another thing is the concept that a school will actually do something for you.....let me explain before people freak out.
School can teach you some theory and reading skills,etc..but you have to exercise those skills...REGULARLY! Schools don't always provide that...ask Louie Palmer about that! He is an absolute monster player who tried his hand at Berklee and guess what?...He opted out!
I know Steve went to PIT and I'm sure he learned stuff,but his playing goes beyond school. Maybe I'm wrong but I would be willing to guess that Steve and Louie both have absorbed more through LISTENING!!!!! We all have an amazing wealth of recordings that are just waiting to be played and studied.....
I guess somewhere in all of this is the idea that you should go for whatever makes you happy and embrace that freedom to do so....
I'm not discouraging the idea of a musical institution,rather I'm hoping that you will be open to the notion that you can do your own thing. I know using people as an example may be frowned upon. Sorry,but I truly believe that the two examples that I used possess much more than any institution can be entirely responsible for. I believe this because I,myself,have functioned without going to any school. My best friend taught me how to read music when I was young and the rest I learned from books and my own studies. Once again,I'm not condemning school but I am,however,questioning it's absolute relevance to the complete development of individuals. Schools only take you so far......I think the development lies more within each person's ability to comprehend and exercise with the information taught. How strong are your convictions? You only live once and if you're single with no obligations,I say jump in with both feet and do whatever logic tells you not to.....at least if it doesn't work out you made the choices and not someone else.....Life is not going to end if nothing happens musically. Don't you believe that you will always play drums...no matter what?
Don't sell yourself short....part of growing is the uncertainty we face. If we knew how everything was going to end up...where would the reward be?
You owe it to yourself to be selfish....it could be the last time you do so....
One of my favorite lines is..."get busy livin',or get busy dyin'."
Of course it took me 34 years to be comfortable saying these things....
you already have an advantage......
Just don't doubt yourself....
<font color="#a62a2a"><font size="1">[ December 03, 2005 04:37 AM: Message edited by: sashal3 ]</font></font>
<font color="#a62a2a"><font size="1">[ December 03, 2005 05:08 AM: Message edited by: sashal3 ]</font></font>
<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ December 03, 2005 05:35 AM: Message edited by: sashal3 ]</font>
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">1. I started at age 13.Originally posted by S.P:
When did you start playing?
How much did you practice at first or as you were developing?
Did you feel it was hard to get into the scene?
Do you feel there is opportunity to make a good living?
2. Between 5 and 10 hours a week, although I would occasionally go a month without playing.
3. The scene was different back then. I used to play with anyone who was willing, which meant that by the time I was 20 I had been in MANY bands and had jammed with numerous musicians. It got to the point that I knew virtually ALL of the 'good' players in town.
4. It depends on what your definition of a 'good living' is and what your priorities are. Generally, I would say that making a living as a drummer is more difficult today than it ever has been, but anything is possible. Chances are that you will live just above the poverty line if you're lucky.
[img]rolleyes.gif[/img]
thanks for sharing DSOP! Cool insight!
hey sp,
for whatever it's worth (i hope this doesn't sound discouraging). but i have always wanted to play full time. i am not a good reader, i'm not a very good jazz player, (but i freakin love listening to it!) i was a product of being raised on rock and roll. jazz came to me later in life. well, i never gave up the dream of being in a BAND full time. i am 40 yrs old now and landed an audition about 6 months ago with one of the top drawing touring bands in chicago. all the guys in this band are full time. they have basically lived poor since the beginning. so there used to it. but i have always worked my own little house painting business which affords me the luxury of not working whenever the band is on the road(and nets me the extra cash to keep me out of poverty)but i don't like painting.... i love drumming. i guess my point is that i am still dreaming BIG. at 40 yrs old this is the closest i've gotten to doing it for a living. i'm still NOT GIVING UP! there are some good places on the internet where you can find full time bands looking for drummers. you just need to be able to get to there location for an auditon then be willing to pick up and move there if you get the gig. there are lots of opportunities out there, from cruise ships to vegas to regular grass roots type original touring bands. the studio scene is probably the toughest to break into. you have to ask yourself....want do i want to do? what type of situation do i want or am willing to be in? i would certainly get a college education....i wish i did! i drank and drugged my way out of school before i could finish my first semester. (that's another story) i am a recovering alcoholic/addict with 9 yrs clean and was finally..... at 31 yrs of age able to get my act together and start auditioning for serious bands. i once drove to NY to audition for a dave matthews cover band that was booked for 300 shows all over the states. i won the audition but i knew 'inside' it wasn't the right thing for me. what it boiled down to was i needed to find a band that was based in chicago because that is where my son is. it took awhile....but i finally found it. i have found numerous other full time bands through this site www.musicianscontact.com
you have to pay to put your add on there and to view the 'drummer wanted' sections. it's a start.
but you'll find full time jobs there....guaranteed! but you have to get to the location. i also found that when i answered the ads....i was never taken seriously....then i created a web-site with sound clips of my playing and got instant respect/responses from the ads i answered. the web-site was invaluable. good luck to you...and as so many of the people who are already huge stars seem to say over and over....DREAM BIG! don't EVER stop DREAMING BIG! never let doubt enter your mind. you CAN do it!
by the way...in case you want to check it out...my new band is www.hellodave.com
so far 'shockadiddle' is the first hod'er to come see the band when we blew through his college town. very nice guy. hopefully i'll meet more of you in my travels!
Sounds like its all going well for you!
I think i have identified my internal conflict. I believe that taking another path such as getting a business degree and getting a "normal" day gig will be an easy and safe choice.
I think a lot of us drummers obsesses over how hard a path it is to become pro and stuff...but what i have come to realise by talking to many people, is that, no path is safe, and the things that make life special is the strugles we personally go through to achieve what we most honestly want. So i am prepared and i WANT to practice, and to go out there and meet people and play with people and hopefully get hired for projects and recordings!
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